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I am writing this to explain my feelings about RRP: Guest Blog

Posted by Shawn McCadden on Thu, Feb 17, 2011 @ 05:00 AM
  
  
  
  
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I am writing this to explain my feelings about RRP

Joe Levitch

One Person’s Opinion: This is a guest blog submitted by Joe Levitch of Levco Builders to express his opinion.  Joe is a remodeling contractor and he is also a Licensed Lead Inspector and the owner of Lead Locators, a lead inspection firm in Boise Idaho. He comments and contributes to RRPedia quite often.  If you would like to express your opinion or offer something of value for RRPedia visitors let me know.

 

 

I am writing this to explain my feelings about RRP

There is a wide spectrum of folks who have been affected by the RRP rule from carpenters with a pickup and a dog, to multimillion dollar companies. Not all trades have the same challenges. I believe the painters have it the worst of all with their vertical containment issues and the concern of using ladders over plastic covered surfaces. However, since RRP is a blanket rule for all trades, I suggest we all need to be involved in collectively solving each other’s dilemmas.

Elevated Blood Lead LevelsHow we all choose to respond to the EPA’s oversight of the remodeling industry is a personal one.   I will be the first to admit that initially I found it difficult to understand how invisible dust particles can cause serious health hazards.  But with a little research, I got it. I suggest you can understand it too. Take my word for it, or look it up. I’m sure you will come to the same conclusion.

Not everyone wants to have a real business.  I often describe that my business was akin to “A Lemonade Stand” (Not that I don’t like them in fact I have a family rule that it is illegal to pass one up without stopping).  I have evolved it into a real business and have accepted the responsibilities that go along with it.  My big step forward occurred when I joined NARI.

RRP ContractorThe business part turns me on right now.  However, I understand that there are those who prefer the hands on, the nail gun and the saw.  I happen to prefer the keyboard and the pen.  Having this new RRP rule is a huge challenge to incorporate into any business and I feel many of the same pressures you do.  I believe following the rules and separating my business from others will take me to the next level of success. I also understand there are those who are seeing it from a totally different perspective.

It reminds me of an old story from India about the six blind men that were asked to touch a different part of an elephant and describe what an elephant looks like. The man that touched the leg said it is like a pillar.  The man that touched the tail said an elephant is like a rope; and so on. The truth is that each man is absolutely correct. Only the sighted person can see what the elephant looks like as a whole.

From the perspective of a carpenter the RRP rule is a pain in the butt. From the homeowner’s perspective, it is a way to keep her kids safer, and it jacks up the price for remodeling. From many professional remodelers’ perspectives, the RRP rule is another level of certification and a credential that sets them apart from the competition.  No matter how you look at RRP, it is a new requirement and changes the game we were all used to.

As an industry I would like us to see us move to the fifth step in the Kübler-Ross model made famous in her 1969 book, On Death and Dying.

  1. Denial= “ I feel fine, this can’t be happening to me“ (This was done prior to 4-22-2010)
  2. Anger =”Why me?” (Lots of this still floating around)
  3. Bargaining= “Just let me do it the way we always have… I did a fine job of cleaning.” (Some professional organizations are still lobbying for this.)
  4. Depression= “I am so sad, why do I even bother?” (A whole lot of us are dealing with this)
  5. Acceptance= “It’s going to be okay, I can do this thing”  (Most larger companies and some of the rest are well on the way to incorporating the RRP rule into their marketing strategies)

Leaded DustThere is a sufficient body of scientific evidence that lead dust is created during renovation and while disturbing lead based painted surfaces. There is also a significant body of medical knowledge that lead is bad for people. I am educating my perspective clients as fast as I can. To the extent that they get it, and see a value in what I offer, I will be a clear choice for those who live in Pre 1978 homes.

For those among us that have made it to the fifth level, I would like to open a national discussion about how we are coping with the challenges and succeeding. The East coast has been dealing with these issues for a lot longer that the West. Shawn has been gracious enough to share the stage for a moment and see if the concept gains traction. My goal is to plant the seed.

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Comments

Nice job Bob. 
 
Planting the seed on a nationwide scale is a worthy goal. I too share many of your sentiments.  
 
The industry is no where near the 5th step of acceptance. In fact there is more resitance than ever. Even our trade organizations are promoting efforts to fight it while they tell their members that they must abide by the law. Change is challenging for many people. You are right there are many contractors who just want to be left alone and have their lemonade stand. The contractors who have decided to embrace RRP are seeing it as a way to differentiate their business.  
 
Last year over 4000 contractors came through our doors for RRP training from all spectrums. Most understand that lead is bad for the human body and it needs to be handled properly. When presented with the facts about lead most change their tune and support the intent of the law.  
 
That it where we have the largest challenge. Like many regulations the intent is good however the mechanisms in the law to do the job are less then desirable.  
 
The guy who has decided to graduate from the lemonade stand to run his business like a business supports the law and is adopting it. Hovever even the contractor with good systems is running into the brick walls of lack of consumer awareness, lack of enforcement, confusing and unclear protocols and a growing underground economy. 
 
I have yet to see a concerted effort by those who regulate the law to produce the results intended. The law is producing a discrimantory environment that rewards the illegally operating contractor and the homeowner looking for a lower price. The trade organizations noteworthy political efforts are fallen on deaf ears. The organizations do not have the critical mass neccessary to affect policy.  
 
Their are individuals who are seeking to provide solution based changes to ensure that the intent of the rule is achieved fairly and logically. They seek the following; publicly reported enforcement of the illegally operating underground economy, education of the consumer, education of the contractor everywhere, rrp required on permits, a new clear curriculum that is meshed with OSHA regulations, prescriptive practices that allow for innovation, and a penalty for consumers who knowingly hire illegally operating contractors. And last but not least an agency with a backbone to stay the course. Simply put the EPA's wimping out last June sent the wrong message to the contractor who paid thousands of dollars to do the right thing. The message was we are not serious about enforcement and we are going to let the guy who didn't certify off the hook. Now the industry is looking at this as something that will not be enforced and that is the case. The guy who did the right thing is beginning to think that this a case of crying wolf. Maybe 20% or so will certify and do the right thing. But for the rest of the industry it will take a lot more than what is currently being done.  
 
Posted @ Thursday, February 17, 2011 6:30 AM by mark paskell
Shawn 
My thanks to you and Joe for another insightful article - and a chance to re-read "On Death and Dying"! 
It appears that slowly but surely, though still quietly, voices inside our profession are beginning to embrace the inevitability of the RRP rule, and changing their thoughts from the negative to a positive paradigm. 
We are our own destiny - more correctly perhaps "Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved." (William Jennings Bryan) and if it is to be achieved, we must change our industry and the customers perception of us. 
Joe's decision to be a voice for positive change is to be applauded, as is his decision to become more educated, certified and involved. 
I believe that if more of us as individuals, and our member organizations, worked together to help our customers understand the value of our profession, we would sooner find ourselves more profitable both fiscally and in our sense of self. 
I would recommend all of your readers share in membership of NARI, NAHB, BPI, Resnet and other professional organisations, and elevate themselves in the eyes of their customers - we cannot continue to do the same thing and expect a different result. 
Thank you again
Posted @ Thursday, February 17, 2011 6:55 AM by Graham Tamplin
Kudos for this well written piece and comment! Thanks for sharing.. 
 
Candi Hilton, Certifed Remodeler 
 
New Leaf Construction  
 
Florida Lead Testing 
 
EPA Certified Lead Inspector 
 
Posted @ Thursday, February 17, 2011 7:02 AM by Candi Hilton
Billboards. TV radio schools. Libraries. On vehicles. Markets posroffices local newspapers my stepvan airports public restrooms 
Surely some would see this who will pay to do this ....not the government. 
Not the 5th level business man maybe the lemonade business Guy will "Reckon"
Posted @ Thursday, February 17, 2011 7:35 AM by J R
Thanks to everyone that this article has motivated to comment. The next step for me is to discover better ways to streamline the RRP process. With any luck we can share techniques that work in a forum of 5th level folks.
Posted @ Thursday, February 17, 2011 1:04 PM by Joe Levitch
Good and thoughtful article. 
I have been in the trenches on the RRP for quite a while now, I understand the emotions and can agree with both supporters and detractors of the RRP. 
NO ONE HAS YET SAID LEAD IS GOOD FOR US! 
That is a fact! 
I am active in my remodeling community and although I personally know 50 or so certified firm owners, few of them are following the guidelines. 
This topic is just starting to boil over. 
As far as the supporters go I have talked to them also and noticed some are cautiously backing away from support until they see some action with enforcement and some public awareness of the rule. 
Give it time, but for now were all just drawing lines in the sand.
Posted @ Sunday, February 20, 2011 4:13 PM by Paul Lesieur
I'm sorry but I'm not buying in on this. I fail to see the significance of this law when the typical homeowner can go into a pre 78 house and simply gut and rip without a single RRP requirement. I'll be the last person to deny them the right to do this. The implications of this law go beyond anything we can immediately imagine. Typical rennovator insurance doesn't cover lead liability. The EPA's estimate on additional costs per job aren't even close to reality. One of the big challenges in remodeling is allowing people to continue to live in their house during work. How does one handle a bathroom remodel in a 1 bath house with the addition of rrp laws. Are you willing to set-up and take-down containment every night for access and only charge an additional $35. Get real for god sakes. There is a limit to what people will pay, the last election and the existance of a "tea-party" (whether you support it or not)indicate the public desire to stop this run-away madness. People praise this law while an average of 1.67 million lives are "aborted" each year. Once,again regardless of wheather you support it or not. Not every pre-78 house-hold has children in it. Why should a 78 year old single women who has paid property taxes for most of her adult life,(my most recent customer) have to embrace the added costs of a remodel with RRP. The opt out clause would be a welcome step back to reality for many people. I just read an article about declining home values, the lowest level in years. A young couple gets married and looks for a house, they can't afford a new house so they buy a "fixer-upper". Once this law gets its teeth into the general economy, how do you think this will help the real-estate industry. And what about that senior citizen that paid increasing property taxes every year because the assessment was raised along with education taxes. How is this going to effect their return if they have to sell because of declining health. I don't doubt that constant exposure to lead is dangerous I haven't read or seen reports of carpenters and painters laying dead on the floor because of it either. This law isn't going to solve the problem, it's going to drive it underground simply because of the cost. As to the remark about preferring the keyboard and the pen to hand tools, that's the core of the problem. If you worked with the hand tools you'd understand just how close to impossible the requirement is. Its putting people out of business. Funny thing about this economy, you take away all those "lemonade stands" you speak of, there might not be much left. 
 
 
 
Christian Peter
Posted @ Tuesday, February 22, 2011 5:43 PM by Christian Peter
Its coming, the end is near, I went to a seminar for real estate over the weekend, Speakers Phd,Dr. Albert Lowry, speaker Raymond Aron, and Chris Johnson, the class,? out of 46? of us 16 went out of business as contractors and they knew of many more that already have, One real estate lady told me she was having a hard time geting anyone to re-hab old houses, she said she will,burn them, , that was scary, the Govt is ruining lives, futures,,, there has to be a better way for all of us to play well, charlie's listening,
Posted @ Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:48 PM by J R
Good Evening to all that are still in business, I have been forwarding all these e mails to my girlfriend, she wants to know " Is this America" does the govt know what they are deliberately doing to control us all, NEW WORLD ORDER
Posted @ Wednesday, February 23, 2011 6:27 PM by J R
I partner with a painter who has worked safely with lead-based paint for decades. in extreme cases he and his workers wore full head helmets with airpumps on some jobs. After years of lead testing and monitoring, he was poisoned as a subcontractor on a pre-RRP job. Despite his precautions on his exterior work area, the lead dust coming through the window from the unsafe interior work had dire consequences for him. High ingestion caused him to have a stroke and fall off the ladder. He went undiagnosed with that stroke. The hospital staff thought his violent behavior was a psychological breakdown. He was not treated for the lead poisoning. Within 2 months, he suffered a second stroke; this time it damaged his arm severely. Fortunately, the second hospital's emergency room doctor was smart enough to suspect lead poisoning when my colleague said in his ER exam that he was a painter. After years of rehab this, this lifetime painter can only work a few hours a day in his trade. He is not dead, but his business went bankrupt. So, please don't say the health claims are not true.  
 
 
 
In addition, these young couples buying older homes are the most susceptible for lead damage. Often, they are DIYers remodeling old homes in preparation for the beginning of their families. Fortunately, many of them are educated enough to research the dangers of remodeling to both the pregnant mom and their children. They find the Speedheater infrared paint remover www.eco-strip.com) because it is safe for lead-paint removal. They learn how to use it quickly and know there is no lead vapors from its low heat gun to poison them or their neighbors.  
 
 
 
The RRP law and its publicity to realtors, landlords, homeowners, and the general public is making a difference. Like cigarette smoking, no one is telling folks they can't smoke. The laws now tell smokers they can't poison anyone else than themselves. It took decades to overcome the tobacco industry's false claims. Then it is still taking years to protect the public from 2nd hand smoke. Sure, bars and restaurants who allowed smoking were financially impacted. But they adjusted and continue to prosper. 
 
 
 
What more facts do you need to change to better health for all?
Posted @ Friday, February 25, 2011 11:41 AM by Catherine Brooks
It is a terrible thing for this man, being a professional painter and going through this, still should have known that anything to do with property ,old property, but this law still does not lower my insurance to the point i can stay in business, the cost of added materials, of all the wasted govt. spending, let the govt. pay for the items to be used to safen a job site,, I once had the potion to wear ear noise protection when young, i didnt , now have hearing loss at 66 years old, so working safe around older property is a must for sure, but for the commies to make it impossible for us to afford the added costs, like insurance going from $2,700.00 to $18,000.00 is out of wack Mr. Govt,, All new world order, And of course being a professional contractor, was once one of the largest in the world, do not have lead paint poisoning ( YET ) 49 years in the business, now semi-retired,and still working ( was working ) untill thois came stronger into law, Christine makes good words of wisdom, i still think it's time for networking businesses together as a new way to have meetings, shared ideas, lectures at schools,libraries, etc  
 
THEN maybe some of this might work out for the good, RECKON
Posted @ Friday, February 25, 2011 11:58 AM by James Raymond
Catherine, 
 
I've been in business for over 20 years. 90% of what I did was on older homes. If your partner followed all the precautions you claim then it would seem the RRP procedure won't do anything for anybody. I haven't seen anyone in the 24 years I've been in business practice RRP precautions. In regards to cigarette smoke. 2 packs a day or whatever over the course of a lifetime no doubt will hurt one. People doing a remodel several times in their life is not the same as the steady cigarette smoker. Somewheres in Shawns website is a comparison of the actual testing versus children with high lead levels.The numbers are going the other way. People aren't going to pay an additonal 15 or 25 hundred dollars for an rrp remodel. The added costs will convince them to do their own work. I sincerely doubt they will practice the RRP regiment. I don't believe they will spend 600 to 900 dollars for a hepa vac. If this is driving experienced remodelers out of the market how could someone with litle experience expect to do better. All the money from the tobacco settlements don't seem to be helping many of the states out right now. Watch the news, many states are virtually bankrupt. If lead is so deadly, then why can a homeowner do their own work without RRP process. I'm not denieing that lead is bad. But I do weigh the costs of these new practices versus the risk. People will bypass this process, the costs are just too great. The very process of updating and improving these old homes will cease. Its not so much the volume of facts I need as it is the accuracy, and right now, I'm not buying into this.
Posted @ Friday, February 25, 2011 6:24 PM by Christian Peter
Hey Christian be careful the commies will follow you around now, they hate us, the govt, is crooked,I have quite amount of lead in me from Viet Nam think tjhey care, agent orange, took some parts away from problems,think they care, protecting us from lead paint is good, but to costly for all, billions of dollars are being spent by the govt, for what,
Posted @ Friday, February 25, 2011 6:34 PM by jim Raymond
Jim, Thanks for the remarks and your advice. One of my closest friends is a Viet Nam Vet with purple heart. My thanks to you sir for you service. I wish things were better, but it doesn't seem to be improving right now. Hope for the best. 
 
 
 
Chris
Posted @ Sunday, February 27, 2011 9:03 PM by Christian Peter
check this link it is so true http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCnD0MtJpGA tell me what you think
Posted @ Monday, March 07, 2011 9:01 PM by paul k
Paul,Thanks for the clip, “The sky is falling channel” was able to slip their twist on the RRP rule and give their anti-government advotainment perspective. Like I said in the original piece, without understanding the entire thing it looks like junk. Check your sources do your own research make your own decision. Is the RRP Rule right for you? Is speeding down the highway drunk wrong? Do I want laws that don’t make sense to be enforced against me? Change the laws, there is a process. Trust the system it works. At least it works better than most systems. Anarchy isn’t a better choice for me. Do the right thing for the right reason. Your clients will appreciate that you care or not.
Posted @ Monday, March 07, 2011 9:21 PM by joe Levitch
Joe, I understand the need to protect children from lead poioning, I still think the regulation has gone too far. They never should have removed the opt-out clause. In this economy people can not and will not pay for the additional costs to follow all the different regulations. There is the EPA rule, DOS rules, and OSHA rules that all need to be followed, along with additional insurance premiums, the list goes on. The EPA has no consequences to their regulations, they just make them up to put money into their pockets. Lead poisoning has been on the decline for years, the cdc no longer is concerned. There are some contractors that give good contractors a bad rap. I have always made sure my worksites were cleaned properly, sometimes leaving the home cleaner then before the job was done. It is a matter of common sense when you are working on an older home, to take extra care, but with these new regulations this runs up the cost to the homeowners, the people we all depend on. If they can not afford to do the job according to the regulations, it will not be done properly or with extra care, causing more lead dust. Who wins here? The children? No the GOVERNMENT, when they start assessing fines. So Joe I ask you, who is winning?
Posted @ Tuesday, March 08, 2011 1:28 PM by paul k
Paul, Deciding to follow RRP is not like a football game where one team wins and the other looses. I believe as I stated in the original article that the body of knowledge about lead and dust being created during remodeling activities creates a direct pathway into the bodies of our employees, clients, and their families. Lead testing is not routinely done on clients only disadvantaged youth that don't have remodeling projects done on their homes. There are real people with real kids that are really accidentally poisoned because of remodeling projects. That is a sad thing. I don't want to be responsible for harming folks so I follow the rules. I am participating on a national level to help guide the process of improving the RRP rule and appreciate our conversation. RRP is not perfect. I get that, My intention at the time was to have a site dedicated to contractors that are finding cleaver ways of working with RRP and keeping dust and costs down, I still want that but we have to get past the 4th stage first.
Posted @ Tuesday, March 08, 2011 2:27 PM by Joe Levitch
Gentlemen and ladies - I've been following the email contributions to this blog article with interest, wondering if we'd see something other than "people won't pay for it", "get the Government off our backs" and "it's not dangerous". (forgive my paraphrasing and sarcasm if you would). 
On this RRPedia blog - http://www.shawnmccadden.com/rrpedia/bid/55049/Does-Economy-Buster-RRP-Have-Any-Factual-Basis-Guest-Blog - Ray Douglas offers facts and figures, and template letters to members of our Government. Useful and constructive stuff. His article reinforces the decline in EBL in children, and he comments factually on some of the early "misses" made in drafting the rule. 
 
Just think direction and action may be more beneficial to our industry than complaining, even if it's good sometimes to vent.  
 
I'm in the midwest, over 80% of the housing stock in my territory is pre 78, and as you know, we test for the absence of lead, not the presence of lead (lead is assumed under RRP). So, I test at no charge, my customers are involved in the process so they can see and appreciate what I'm doing, and I charge at cost for my LSWP.  
 
I guess I'm lucky - I haven't had anyone refuse to protect themselves, or the next owners of their home - who may have children - by not agreeing to LSWP 
 
Thank you
Posted @ Tuesday, March 08, 2011 2:54 PM by Graham Tamplin
Lots of great conversation has been going on within this guest blog. First, thanks to Joe for writing it and sharing his thoughts. To everyone else, thanks for your contributions as well. It is obvious we do not all agree on everything, but if we did there would be little need for RRPedia and or guest bloggers. The good news is that everyone has been sharing their opinions in passionate but respectful ways, and everyone here is contributing in their own way(s) towards a better future for all of us.  
 
Thanks again for allowing me the opportunity to participate in our combined efforts. 
 
If anyone else would like to contribute a guest blog please feel free to contact me. Don't worry about having an English degree, editing help is available.
Posted @ Tuesday, March 08, 2011 2:57 PM by Shawn McCadden
joe i have a question how long have you been a contractor and how did you handle your jobs before 4/22/2010 and dont tell me you have been treating your projects like you have been the boy in the plastic buble since 1992 be real
Posted @ Tuesday, March 08, 2011 9:11 PM by paul k
Shawn, 
 
I think we're supposed to be thanking you. This site has been and continues to be, the go-to place for the latest information available on this new nigtmare subject. I've spent countless hours reviewing different sites on the internet about rrp. Your site is the most effective in its content and delivery. I would guess as time goes on, your viewership will only increase, as it should and to the benefit of those who choose to use this tremendous resource. Thank you , Thank you and Thank you again. 
 
 
 
Christian Peter
Posted @ Wednesday, March 09, 2011 6:51 PM by Christian Peter
Good Afternoon,, I see the govt.is selling off hundreds of old buildings to save tax payers millions $, I wonder if I was to buy some .do they have lead paint, can i bring suit against the govt, if they do not remove the lead paint before sales are made, and as usual govt cover ups,, Most of the property's are in need of extreme repairs and up-dates, where dose this save taxes, and the public's safety,some of the buildings would make good, low income housing,homes for humanity, 
 
for now J R
Posted @ Thursday, March 10, 2011 12:54 PM by Jim Raymond
i think jim has a good point
Posted @ Thursday, March 10, 2011 1:14 PM by paul k
i think jim has a good point
Posted @ Thursday, March 10, 2011 1:14 PM by paul k
If Obama is going to sell all this property as a fair price it may make it worth while, but to dump something that is 2-3 hundred years old, better to tear them down,build, schools,housing for all our people thatneed it, put contractors back to work, and the wasted govt. spending could re-benifit both sides, I went to the RMV in Haverhill to turn in plates last week, and a homeless fellow said he was a contractor untill last spring, no work,no insurance, no more vehicle and now no home,and freezing,shacking up in some cellar of a church, he passed me his business card, very sad Mr. President this country is a great shameful place to live for people like him, OH! he is working part time for $80.00 a week and trying to get started up again, He mwas also a VietNam vet, sell these buildings, tear them down,re-build,giving men women work, this all has to start somewhere,before we end up like forign countrys,I go now take a chill pill,,SAD isn't it
Posted @ Thursday, March 10, 2011 1:26 PM by Jim Raymond
My customer is 79 years of age. She lives alone with a Shiatzu. She wants some work done to her kitchen cabinets. They are original cabinets in a home built in 1956. She would like the cabinets scraped and painted. When I discuss the extra costs associated with RRP she looks at me like I'm the crook and says -"What the hell do I care about lead based paint at my age? Screw the EPA, do you want the job or not?" 
 
She has the option of doing the scraping and sanding herself or hiring someone who does not follow RRP. Maybe she will have her nephew to the job. So when the paint is disturbed who goes to jail?  
 
 
 
Posted @ Wednesday, May 25, 2011 7:53 AM by Ohio Handyman
I think the RRP rule is just another way for big brother to get their hands in our pockets. I confront my customers with this issue and they all seem throw their arms into the air and ask,"doesn't the government have enough control." I have to agree. I always did my best to contain my areas, laying plastic down, scraping into contained areas, protecting myself and my employees, using dust collection devices, and vacuuming everything when done. Now I feel like I have a target on my back. I know contractors who will not touch any house pre 1978 with fears of doing one thing wrong and being fined for it. The government needs to take a seat and leave their beuracratic nonsense for some other cause. If anything this lame law is making so people don't want to move forward on projects they normally would have. Creating jobs, I don't think so, scaring people away, definitely.
Posted @ Monday, June 27, 2011 6:49 PM by Ron Myers
Hey Ron,, our crooked government,I went out of business last fall, my insurance went up into the thousands, customers thought I was scamming them, i paid big money for all those pamphlets,files,documents,contracts,special tools and vacs, and at 67 years old, a highly decorated veteran, this is what i am looking forward to, no work -and best of all i do not have to pay in taxes, now planning giving up my citizenship to another country, USA is not so wonderful anymore, NOT MADE IN USA...china -OK when will we learn,when will we have revolution, fines, put contractors out of business, bringing in unlicensed workers,bringing hazards, ME i'm not the only one whining,OH well enough bad -negative thoughts,new world order will take us all
Posted @ Monday, June 27, 2011 7:13 PM by Jim Raymond
RON I AM 110% ON BOURD WITH YOU GOING TO WORK EVERY DAY AND IF YOU DONT PUT UP YELLOW CRIME SEEN RIBBINS ACROSS THE HOME OWNERS FRONT YARD BECAUSE MRS BULGER SAYS I DO NOT MY NEIGHBORS SEEING ALL THAT CRAP ALL OVER THE PLACE AND THEN WE RISK A TEN THOUSAND DOLLAR FINE NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD SEE THIS DAY I GUESS THIS WHAT THEY CALL VOTE FOR CHANGE AND CHANGE IS WHAT ALL OF US GOT VOTE MITT ROMNEY 2012
Posted @ Monday, June 27, 2011 7:17 PM by PAUL K
vote for zoo-keeper,its all monkey business,the govt is like a circus, a gypsy circus, tramps and thieves, ribbons around houses,how about the tornado victems, and the lead paint out there, A big brother holiday of fines, Has america no shame hanging our tradesmen. Brotherhood, hhhmmm.
Posted @ Monday, June 27, 2011 7:41 PM by J.R.
http://blogs.wsj.com/in-charge/2011/06/23/contractor-survey-new-epa-rule-to-increase-costs/tab/comments/?sort_order=asc check out link you are not going nuts
Posted @ Monday, June 27, 2011 8:13 PM by paul k
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